pitching is deep: so tfwhat?

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Beardawg
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pitching is deep: so tfwhat?

Postby Beardawg » Wed Mar 09, 2011 11:13 pm

yeah, there are a lot of really good pitchers, and a lot of guys with great upside. But doesn't that just make it *harder* to win pitching categories? Like, Grey says that because 1B is deep he needs a *top* 1B because otherwise it will be easy to lose out on gaining an advantage at that position. Why should SP be any different? I just think the depth at pitching makes the rankings there extremely important, and reaching maybe one round or a couple auction dollars for a staff that will have a leg up. I just had to get that off my chest. Thx
10 team, keep 9 at auction $, 6x6 OPS,HLD

C - W. Ramos
1 - M. Cabrera
2 - A. Mondessi
S - T. Story
3 - N. Arenado
CI - L. Voit
MI - M. Machado
O - C. Yelich
O - M. Brantley
O - J. Upton
O - A. Meadows
U - G. Hampson
BN - Franmil Reyes
BN - N. Senzel
BN - J. Bauers

SP - C. Carrasco
SP - M. Mikolas
SP - H. Ryu
SP - S. Matz
SP - M. Harvey
SP - M. Strahm

RP - A. Miller
RP - S. Doolittle
RP - J. Hader
RP - S. Dominguez
RP - R. Presley
RP - C. Devenski
RP - T. Rogers
RP - D. Castillo
RP - D. Betances

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Oregon Nut Cups
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Re: pitching is deep: so tfwhat?

Postby Oregon Nut Cups » Wed Mar 09, 2011 11:28 pm

The difference is your hitter plays 5~7 days a week. Your pitcher gives you max 2 starts per week. Very good vs great over 150 games vs 30 games is quite a discrepancy.
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If you want me to look at your team, post the team. Don't post a link to another site where the team is.
Have you given me all the info I need to judge your team? The number of teams in the league is a good start for the big overall questions.
I don't know who's on your waivers. Don't just ask me who you should pick up. Give me names to choose from.
If you only have one team, post your team in your signature with the league parameters.

Beardawg
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Re: pitching is deep: so tfwhat?

Postby Beardawg » Thu Mar 10, 2011 12:06 am

it's true, but those 150 games are relative to other guys playing 150 games, and those 30 starts are relative to other guys making 30 starts. Whether a hitter makes 150 starts is irrelevant to whether your pitchers are better than mine.

On a related note, points shares ranks Halladay really high! But everyone just seems to casually dismiss that.

I know people value hitters above pitchers because hitters are generally more consistent and therefore predictable. I get that. But I don't necessarily get punting or waiting on SP just because it's deep. I still need to try to get pitchers better than yours, however I can in the cheapest way possible.
10 team, keep 9 at auction $, 6x6 OPS,HLD

C - W. Ramos
1 - M. Cabrera
2 - A. Mondessi
S - T. Story
3 - N. Arenado
CI - L. Voit
MI - M. Machado
O - C. Yelich
O - M. Brantley
O - J. Upton
O - A. Meadows
U - G. Hampson
BN - Franmil Reyes
BN - N. Senzel
BN - J. Bauers

SP - C. Carrasco
SP - M. Mikolas
SP - H. Ryu
SP - S. Matz
SP - M. Harvey
SP - M. Strahm

RP - A. Miller
RP - S. Doolittle
RP - J. Hader
RP - S. Dominguez
RP - R. Presley
RP - C. Devenski
RP - T. Rogers
RP - D. Castillo
RP - D. Betances

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Oregon Nut Cups
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Location: Right There

Re: pitching is deep: so tfwhat?

Postby Oregon Nut Cups » Thu Mar 10, 2011 8:15 am

You always want to get better pitchers than the other guy. The problem is, you shouldn't be passing up 30/40 HR hitters to do it. You load up on good hitters for the first few rounds while people might be grabbing arms, you still have an opportunity to have a comparable staff to the person who passed up a slugger. Unless they get crazy lucky with upside picks with hitters late in the draft, the team that's running out to draft Felix Hernandez and Roy Halladay does not stand a chance.
ONC
http://razzball.com
Image

If you want me to look at your team, post the team. Don't post a link to another site where the team is.
Have you given me all the info I need to judge your team? The number of teams in the league is a good start for the big overall questions.
I don't know who's on your waivers. Don't just ask me who you should pick up. Give me names to choose from.
If you only have one team, post your team in your signature with the league parameters.

PollardsVision
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Re: pitching is deep: so tfwhat?

Postby PollardsVision » Thu Mar 10, 2011 10:34 am

Another factor is the number needed.
If we're talking SPs vs hitters, in most leagues, you're going to need 6-7 SPs, where as you're going to need 12 or so hitters.

Only needing 6 or 7 SPs makes it much easier form a good pitching staff while ignoring it in the early rounds.
With the depth at SP combined with relatively small number needed, someone focusing on pitching early could still very easily be outpitched by someone choosing to wait.
There are all kinds of ways to put together a solid pitching staff without burning a top 4 pick on a SP.

The same just isn't true for the offense. You must hit it early and often, then you'll still need to scour the wire for the gems to do well.

5 vs. 4 categories is no small detail either.

Another factor is what a "bust" will mean for your team.
If a top pick batter "busts", they will most often still give some pretty good value in return. Maybe they don't give you the 35-110 you expected, but the 25-85 still really helps the cause. A slumping batter can still help out in 4 categories.
A top SP bust often means a largely missed season or sometimes even worse (a 4.50+ with a bunch of innings). A slumping SP will only help in 2 categories while killing you in 2.
10 team 5x5 ROTO (OBP), 11-player keeper, C/1B/2B/3B/SS/MI/CI/IF/5OF/UTIL/8SP/3RP

C: Castro, Montero
1B: Rizzo, Adams, Lind
2B: Kinsler, Kipnis
3B: M.Cabrera, Frazier, Reynolds
SS: Alcides
OF: Stanton, Trumbo, Choo, Marte, Rasmus, Blackmon, Bradley Jr.

SP: Gio, Scherzer, Ryu, Cashner, Kuroda, Lackey, Minor, Wood, Peralta
RP: Balfour, Perkins, Nathan, Frieri, Fields

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AdmiralTrey
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Re: pitching is deep: so tfwhat?

Postby AdmiralTrey » Thu Mar 10, 2011 2:00 pm

Starting Pitchers are also more susceptible to injuries than the average first baseman. Greinke, Wainwright, Webb, etc. can tell you about that this spring training, since they're not occupied with playing baseball at the moment.
You don't have to worry about a first baseman throwing his arm out or needing ligament surgery. And even if they do, i.e. Albert Pujols, they can still produce. A pitcher puts stress on his arm every time out there, and if it gets hurt, they can't be effective.

10 Team 6X6 H2H Dynasty Year 5
C - Wilson Ramos
1B - Freddie Freeman
2B - Gleyber Torres
3B - Nolan Arenado
SS - Trea Turner
OF - Mike Trout
OF - Ronald Acuna
OF - Yordan Alvarez
OF - Kris Bryant
UTL - Javier Baez
UTL - Adalberto Mondesi
Bench - Rhys Hoskins, Miguel Sano, Byron Buxton, Jonathan Schoop, Rowdy Tellez

SP - Gerrit Cole, Stephen Strasburg, Blake Snell, Chris Sale, Jose Berrios, Chris Paddack, Mike Soroka, German Marquez
RP - Ken Giles, Dellin Betances, Taylor Rogers, Geovanny Gallegos, Colin Poche, Corey Knebel
Pedo NA Purgatory Felipse Vazquez

Prospects:
SP: Grayson Rodriguez, Josiah Gray, Seth Corry, Franklin Perez, Ryan Weathers, Blake Walston
RP: James Karinchak
OF: Luis Robert, Alek Thomas, Jesus Sanchez, Kameron Misner, Bayron Lora
IF: Vidal Brujan, Alexander Mojica, Malcolm Nunez, Greg Jones, Gunnar Henderson
C: Sam Huff, Luis Campusano, William Contreras

Results:
2019 - 4th place. Finished regular season 20 games ahead of 2nd place but fell apart in the playoffs.
2018 - 1st place. Finished regular season 24 games ahead of 2nd place and won in the playoffs.
2017 - 2nd place. Finished regular season 5 games ahead of 2nd place but lost in the playoffs.
2016 - 1st place. Finished regular season 1.5 games behind 1st but won in the playoffs

FishMan
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Re: pitching is deep: so tfwhat?

Postby FishMan » Thu Mar 10, 2011 2:47 pm

I think you guys are both missing the point a bit. There are a bunch of starters that might be better than or at least comparable to Halladay this year, especially in a mixed league. A couple of them are even on his own team.

On the other side, how many first basemen project to be even close to Pujols? Maybe 1 IF he can stay sober (or hit drunk).

The dropoff from Halladay to the 12th best starter is probably not nearly as significant as the dropoff from Pujols, Hanley, or Longoria/Wright to the 12th best player at those positions.


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