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QS question for points leagues

Posted: Sun Apr 25, 2010 6:32 am
by nyphilsphan
My H2H points league currently scores SP as follows:
Wins = +7
Quality start = +3
Losses = -3

For next year we are considering flipping the points for Wins (+3) and QS (+7). I know some Roto have replaced W with QS or added the QS for 6X6. Is anyone in a points league giving QS more value than W's? Loved it? Hated it? It sounds like an innocent enough change, but we haven't crunched the numbers yet so I thought I'd ask around. All opinions are welcome, thanks.

Re: QS question for points leagues

Posted: Sun Apr 25, 2010 7:51 am
by Shoeless Joe
We used to give equal points for wins, quality starts AND saves. I always tried to use the previous season's point leaders to determine the value so that the top pitchers were on-par with the top hitters.

Re: QS question for points leagues

Posted: Sun Apr 25, 2010 8:02 am
by wynams
A friend has used this system un-modified for 20+ years (I've used it 3 and have no complaints)

Scoring for Pitching Categories
BBI - Walks Issued (Pitchers) -1 point
BS - Blown Saves -10 points
ER - Earned Runs -3 points
HA - Hits Allowed -1 point
HB - Hit Batsmen -1 point
HD - Holds 1 point
HRA - Home Runs Allowed -1 point
INN - Innings 3.3 points
IRS - Inherited Runners Scored -0.5 points
K - Strikeouts (Pitcher) 1 point
S - Saves 8 points
W - Wins 8 points

and our top 25 pitchers thus far:
Roy Halladay 129.9
Tim Lincecum 118.1
Adam Wainwright 107.6
Ubaldo Jiménez 109.5
Barry Zito 98.2
Mike Pelfrey 90.3
Andy Pettitte 95.4
Tyler Clippard 61.1
John Danks 78.3
Ricky Romero 85
Carlos Silva 69.7
Dallas Braden 77.8
Liván Hernández 76.2
Matt Garza 87.7
Jered Weaver 74.8
Leo Núñez 60.5
Joel Zumaya 61.1
CC Sabathia 75.1
Doug Fister 77.1
Jonathan Sánchez 67.8
Félix Hernández 81.8
Mariano Rivera 72.1
Fernando Rodney 73.7
Brad Penny 69.3
Roy Oswalt 72.8

Re: QS question for points leagues

Posted: Sun Apr 25, 2010 8:27 am
by wynams
on no points for a loss or QS ...

The hits and runs that the pitcher would give up is penalty enough. Should a pitcher really have his start looked upon as being insufficient if he pitches a CG while giving up 2-runs as opposed to the 1-run that his opponent threw? There are just some games that don't 'deserve' a loss.

There are no points for QS because the goal is for the elite RP to be equal to the elite SP over a season. That was the case in our league up until yesterday when Aardsma and Rauch (6 save blokes) fell out of the top 25 P. What remains, largely, are the SPs who have yet to have a bad outing.

This points system could probably be reworked for QS points, but at years end, I have yet to see imbalance between SP/RP. If it ain't broke ...

It depends what your ultimate goal is. If you want SPs to be more valuable than RPs, this is not the points system for you. If you want the best SPs RPs and bats to be around the same points at years end ... I've yet to see anything approach this setup.

Re: QS question for points leagues

Posted: Sun Apr 25, 2010 9:01 am
by nyphilsphan
wynams, I really appreciate your detailed response. Our 7-year league has always been a starting pitcher heavy one, so our goal would not be to have RP equal to SP. The best RP will crack the top 20 between SP/RP but not top 15. But did I read your points correctly, +3.3 points per inning pitched? Although the numbers are comparable between our leagues so far. Our top 5. The drop off in points comes from our CG and SO bonuses.
Halladay 119
Ubaldo 110
Lincecum 90
Wainwright 87
Felix 69

Saves are +6, BS -3, and Capps is currently tops with 57 (Capps!?)

thanks for the insight.

Re: QS question for points leagues

Posted: Sun Apr 25, 2010 9:25 am
by wynams
Capps was up there in our league as well until his 1st BS two nights ago.

3.3 points per inning (or 1.1 per out) is what the top 25 mentioned earlier is based upon. Really the elite elite SPs always have come in higher than the RPs but there is good RP representation in the top 25.

Here are final 2009 standings for arms:
Player Fan Pts
Zack Greinke 700.8
Tim Lincecum 686.6
Félix Hernández 664.6
Justin Verlander 629
Adam Wainwright 626.9
Javier Vázquez 622.8
Roy Halladay 614.7
Dan Haren 590.8
Chris Carpenter 563.8
CC Sabathia 559
Mariano Rivera 537.4
Joe Nathan 536.6
Josh Johnson 513.7
Jon Lester 512
Matt Cain 509.3
Jair Jurrjens 508.5
Jonathan Broxton 503.3
Cliff Lee 498.5
Wandy Rodríguez 495.7
Ubaldo Jiménez 494.4
Heath Bell 488.4
Josh Beckett 477.7
David Aardsma 462.4
Randy Wolf 458.3
Jonathan Papelbon 451.4