CarGo v Votto

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Bring Back Pluto
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CarGo v Votto

Postby Bring Back Pluto » Fri Aug 27, 2010 12:49 pm

Quick question:

In a shallow 5*5 roto league (with 14 offensive slots including CI, MI, one UTIL, and 5 OFs) who do you like better at their attached salaries for the next three years (2011-13)?

Votto: $17
CarGo: $13

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danielpwnz
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Re: CarGo v Votto

Postby danielpwnz » Fri Aug 27, 2010 12:54 pm

Votto and it's not really close.
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JD, the Hockey Man
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Re: CarGo v Votto

Postby JD, the Hockey Man » Fri Aug 27, 2010 1:18 pm

Votto and it's not really close.
ORLY?

Votto - .326/31/90/90/11
CarGo - .320/26/84/81/20

Seems pretty close to me at the moment, and there's no reason to think they won't post similar numbers moving forward.

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danielpwnz
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Re: CarGo v Votto

Postby danielpwnz » Fri Aug 27, 2010 2:39 pm

CarGo has like no plate discipline whatsoever. Going forward I'd trust Votto to repeat his success a lot more than CarGo unless he learns to take a few pitches.
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JD, the Hockey Man
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Re: CarGo v Votto

Postby JD, the Hockey Man » Fri Aug 27, 2010 2:58 pm

CarGo has like no plate discipline whatsoever. Going forward I'd trust Votto to repeat his success a lot more than CarGo unless he learns to take a few pitches.
Fair enough. But they seem to strike out at the same rate, it's just CarGo doesn't draw as many walks. It's also worth noting that this is CarGo's first full season vs. Votto's third. I would imagine CarGo's walks/OBP will rise as he ages.

But yes, Votto does have a more established track record, so he is more trustworthy moving forward. You'll get more power from Votto and more speed from CarGo but I think their production will, by and large, be about on par.

Now, with the salaries taken into consideration? It depends on how much a guy like Pujols cost vs. Votto, so I'm not sure what that 4 dollar difference really means. Depends on the league. If it's a small gap? Votto. If it's a big discount? CarGo.

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danielpwnz
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Re: CarGo v Votto

Postby danielpwnz » Fri Aug 27, 2010 3:13 pm

All good points.

CarGo's plate discipline has actually taken a step backwards this year (walk percentage down from 8.8% last year to 5.5% this year) and he's never had a walk rate higher than 9.9% at any level. Meanwhile, Votto has never had a walk rate lower than 10% at any level, minus a small 24 game sample from his first "cup of coffee" with the Reds. While this isn't totally relevant because it's not likely an OBP league, it does give me concern that pitchers will learn to exploit this in CarGo, which could make next year rough for his owners.

I think CarGo is definitely talented enough to develop better plate discipline, but I don't think he will be able to repeat this season next year.

Especially good point about the salary, though, so that will be interesting to see. That said, no matter what the salary situation is, both were likely good value picks this year but I like Votto's chances better to be a great value pick next year and certainly after that.
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AdmiralTrey
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Re: CarGo v Votto

Postby AdmiralTrey » Fri Aug 27, 2010 5:10 pm

You can't be a good hitter if you don't walk a lot.


Wait, Vladimir Guerrerro missed that memo. I think it's dangerous to write off great success due to a lack of walks. Some guys just don't like walking, that doesn't mean they can't still be great players. Obviously Vlad is better than the average player, but CarGo certainly seems to be as well.
I'd still take Votto, too, but I definitely wouldn't say that it's not close.

10 Team 6X6 H2H Dynasty Year 5
C - Wilson Ramos
1B - Freddie Freeman
2B - Gleyber Torres
3B - Nolan Arenado
SS - Trea Turner
OF - Mike Trout
OF - Ronald Acuna
OF - Yordan Alvarez
OF - Kris Bryant
UTL - Javier Baez
UTL - Adalberto Mondesi
Bench - Rhys Hoskins, Miguel Sano, Byron Buxton, Jonathan Schoop, Rowdy Tellez

SP - Gerrit Cole, Stephen Strasburg, Blake Snell, Chris Sale, Jose Berrios, Chris Paddack, Mike Soroka, German Marquez
RP - Ken Giles, Dellin Betances, Taylor Rogers, Geovanny Gallegos, Colin Poche, Corey Knebel
Pedo NA Purgatory Felipse Vazquez

Prospects:
SP: Grayson Rodriguez, Josiah Gray, Seth Corry, Franklin Perez, Ryan Weathers, Blake Walston
RP: James Karinchak
OF: Luis Robert, Alek Thomas, Jesus Sanchez, Kameron Misner, Bayron Lora
IF: Vidal Brujan, Alexander Mojica, Malcolm Nunez, Greg Jones, Gunnar Henderson
C: Sam Huff, Luis Campusano, William Contreras

Results:
2019 - 4th place. Finished regular season 20 games ahead of 2nd place but fell apart in the playoffs.
2018 - 1st place. Finished regular season 24 games ahead of 2nd place and won in the playoffs.
2017 - 2nd place. Finished regular season 5 games ahead of 2nd place but lost in the playoffs.
2016 - 1st place. Finished regular season 1.5 games behind 1st but won in the playoffs

Bring Back Pluto
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Re: CarGo v Votto

Postby Bring Back Pluto » Fri Aug 27, 2010 6:01 pm

FYI:

Based on this year's salaries, Pujols and Cabrera, as examples, could be kept for three years at $58 per year and $45 per year, respectively. Ryan Braun at $49, I believe. So, yes, they both should be bargains.

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JD, the Hockey Man
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Re: CarGo v Votto

Postby JD, the Hockey Man » Fri Aug 27, 2010 6:21 pm

FYI:

Based on this year's salaries, Pujols and Cabrera, as examples, could be kept for three years at $58 per year and $45 per year, respectively. Ryan Braun at $49, I believe. So, yes, they both should be bargains.
Holy hell, yes. If that's the case I'd keep Votto.

FantasyJunkie787
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Re: CarGo v Votto

Postby FantasyJunkie787 » Fri Aug 27, 2010 8:34 pm

@danielpwnz, Enjoy this is a great read about votto, with a lot of stats

http://eliteboc.wordpress.com/2010/07/0 ... ell-votto/


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