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Fair or Not Fair Lineup manipulation.

Posted: Mon May 15, 2017 10:52 am
by DontHaveToCheat
Daily lineup 5x5 league.

League Site says list the following terms for the roster.

1 C, 1 1B, 1 2B, 1 SS, 1 3B, 1 CI, 1 MI, 5 OF, 1 UT and 9 pitchers.

3 bench spots, 2 DL spots.

One team is using 0 catchers and 4 bench spots cause the website allows it.

A lower tier catcher will average about 15 AB's, .5 HR, 1.8 RBI and 2.1 RBI a week.

Catcher is one of the most important positions on a baseball team, even though it is traditionally a weak offensive position.

That extra bench position could easily be used to make up the 15 AB's a week by eliminating off days and more options to play a hotter hitter at better offensive positions to provide better overall numbers.

To anyone who says this would be legal, why even have positions listed and just use any 13 hitters and 9 pitchers? IMO the point of fantasy baseball is to try and replicate fielding a real baseball team as best as possible without having the billions of dollars to do so.

The league has a cap of 180 games started by starting pitchers to accomplish the above list goal - replicate fielding a real baseball team as best as possible without having the billions of dollars to do so.

Thoughts?

Re: Fair or Not Fair Lineup manipulation.

Posted: Tue May 16, 2017 8:37 am
by Grey
It's legal, you're not fielding a real baseball team with 13 hitters and 9 pitchers all going at once, you're fielding the best possible fantasy baseball team

Re: Fair or Not Fair Lineup manipulation.

Posted: Tue May 16, 2017 9:24 am
by DontHaveToCheat
Then why even have the positions listed or positional eligibility?

Why not field a team of 13 OF/1B/DH players then?

The league rules don't say 13 hitters. They say 1 C, 1 1B, 1 2B, 1 SS, 1 3B, 1 CI, 1 MI, 5 OF and 1 UT

Re: Fair or Not Fair Lineup manipulation.

Posted: Wed May 17, 2017 8:15 am
by Grey
Fantasy teams have MIs and CIs and fifth outfielders, real teams don't have these

Re: Fair or Not Fair Lineup manipulation.

Posted: Wed May 17, 2017 11:28 am
by DontHaveToCheat
That doesn't answer my question about why even have roster positions in fantasy baseball then?

Why would you have to play MI and CI, which you say real teams don't have, but then allow a position that all real teams have to not be used?

Why not have just 13 hitters of any position and 9 pitchers?

Are you saying that real teams don't have back up infielders and OF's?

Don't many major league teams carry 5 OF's?

Re: Fair or Not Fair Lineup manipulation.

Posted: Thu May 18, 2017 8:44 am
by Grey

IMO the point of fantasy baseball is to try and replicate fielding a real baseball team as best as possible without having the billions of dollars to do so.

The league has a cap of 180 games started by starting pitchers to accomplish the above list goal - replicate fielding a real baseball team as best as possible without having the billions of dollars to do so.

Thoughts?
If the point is to replicate real baseball, they're not doing a good job by having positions in fantasy that don't exist or arbitrary rules like 180 games started. Teams play 162 games, not 180. Teams don't have MI or CI or 5 OFs or 9 pitchers all playing at once...

Your point about not having a catcher doesn't hold weight. What if you have an injured catcher who is not playing? It's illegal to leave him in your fantasy lineup, and technically not have a catcher? What if your catcher is sitting one game, you have to have a 2nd catcher to fill in bc real teams always have catchers and you don't have one if your catcher is sitting?

Re: Fair or Not Fair Lineup manipulation.

Posted: Thu May 18, 2017 11:11 am
by DontHaveToCheat
Actually those positions do exist, just not as starters and just not labeled as that. They are usually called utility players.

Most, if not every, team have backup players who play middle infield and corner infield positions. Many teams carry six IF's on their roster.

Many team carry five OF's or five players who can play OF.

But you are still not answering the question I am now asking for a third time.

Why even have the positions in fantasy baseball then?

Why not just have the lineup consist of 13 hitters from any position if it is ok to ignore the catcher position?

Re: Fair or Not Fair Lineup manipulation.

Posted: Thu May 18, 2017 11:31 am
by BigAhnold
I believe what you are saying is that the person is not playing a catcher at all and is taking an additional player on a bench spot. It is not like he is playing an OF at Catcher.

Your league rules could address this - something like "all positions must have a player at all times, even if (and it is acceptable under the rules) the player is in the minors or on the DL."

Many owners operate according to the fallacy that "It should be like real baseball." While historically, the founding fathers of fantasy baseball dictated a number of positions, such as Catcher, Pitcher, Middle Infielder, Corner Infielder, Utility, etc., my understanding is that those were established to somewhat resemble a manger building a team. I think the core goal of fantasy baseball is to give you the ability to act like a GM rather than to seek to replicate real baseball in all situations.

If I could paraphrase what I understand Grey to be saying, it is a game first and foremost, and resemblance to real baseball is almost an afterthought. Just like the card game "War" is not like real war - it is a game first and has a resemblance to real war as an afterthought.

You could probably set up a competitive game where you picked best players regardless of position according to established scoring rules - but that is not a traditional fantasy baseball game as we have come to know it.

There are many permutations of this game - one catcher v. two, requirement that you roster and play relief pitchers, a DH instead of a utility player, etc. These are put in to enhance the gameplaying experience according to the preferences of the league administrators.

But in your game, if he does not have to play a catcher according to league rules, then it is fair for him not to play a catcher. You don't like it? Change the league rules.

BigA

Re: Fair or Not Fair Lineup manipulation.

Posted: Thu May 18, 2017 1:05 pm
by DontHaveToCheat
Thanks for the reply BigAhnold.

Did you miss the start of my OP where I stated the league rules do say 1 C?

The ruling so far has been "a system glitch allows him to not have a catcher on the roster and 4 bench spots rather than the 3 bench spots also stated in the league rules"

Re: Fair or Not Fair Lineup manipulation.

Posted: Thu May 18, 2017 2:07 pm
by BigAhnold
Yes, I saw that.

But the question boils down to this - are the rules of your league in this situation permissive, meaning you can have one player playing 1B, or mandatory that you must have one player playing 1B at all times?

What your opponent is doing is saying "catcher is a crap position, it drags down my batting average, I'd rather play nobody and have 4 bench players than pick and play a Derek Norris type." Whether that is against league rules depends on whether playing a catcher is mandatory (which is what you are arguing) or permitted (which is how most leagues run, but there are leagues that mandate you must play a catcher, and a 1B, etc. at all times). In those type leagues, the catcher you play could, in some instances, be some schlub in the minors or a guy on the DL.

The rules as they are being interpreted, where playing a catcher, or SS, or whatever, is optional, is not unreasonable in my mind. If you want to change the rules, propose a rule change. If I were in your position, that is what I would do - you must play a player at a position at all times, even if a DL or minors player.

I think my general point was in response to your question as to why don't we just pick whatever players and play them irrespective of position. That kind of goes around the question without addressing the situation - yes in real baseball, you better have a catcher. But in fantasy baseball, if it is not mandatory to play a catcher, why do I have to?