Fair or Not Fair Lineup manipulation.

Who to start, who to bench. Grab that WW guy? Low priced rookie or high priced stud?
DontHaveToCheat
Posts: 44
Joined: Mon May 15, 2017 10:34 am

Re: Fair or Not Fair Lineup manipulation.

Postby DontHaveToCheat » Wed May 24, 2017 11:18 am

Going off of your math pal. So maybe you should check it lol.
You clearly aren't going off my math, bro.
And yes if you have 0 hits, 0 hr, 0 average for your catcher position you get...wait for it. Nothing. The bench player HAS to be in the lineup for their stats to count. So if this extra bench player hits 4 HRs on the bench THEY DONT COUNT. But ALL of the catchers stats will count because he is in the lineup every day.
But guess what???

The bench player will not always be on the bench. In fact they will, wait for it...., be inthe lineup far more than normal do to the fact there is an extra bench spot.

And what catcher is in the lineup every day? LULZ. Right there nullifies any intelligent logic.

only EIGHT catchers last year played enough to even qualify for the batting title. EIGHT.
If you don't have a catcher you can't get stats from the catcher. The extra bench player can't play every day. So you would be loosing all the stats that a catcher would provide if he was in the lineup. It's really simple man.
The bench player doesn't have to play everyday.

Which part of a low level catcher gets about 15-16 AB's a week is going over your head?

The catcher with the 12th most AB's last year averaged 15.4 AB's a week for a 27 week season.

Catchers don't play everyday. You need to use that bench spot for only 3-4 starts a week to make up the AB's of a low level catcher. It's really simple math man.

This quote is perfect. You specifically state "make up." That is it. All this will do is make up for what they are loosing at catcher. But if the still had a catcher they would have the catchers stats IN ADDITION to this bench player. Not INSTEAD OF. It's simple math. If you got 250/15/50/5 from a roaming bench spot over a season only you would have that stat line. But if you ADDED a catcher to it who had a line of 240/10/35/1 you ADD those two together. You would have a combined stat line of 245/25/85/6. That stat line is better than what only the bench player can provide.
Ok, now I am confused.

Early in your post you said that the stats from a bench player don't count.

Now you are saying the stats from a player on the bench do count. Which one is it?

You can't have it both ways, bro. You are totally contradicting yourself.

And you clearly aren't comprehending what is being written. I specifically state "make up STARTS", not make up stats. I provided the stats that they will give better overall stats, especially in BA and steals.


The idea here is that you don't use the catcher OR the bench player alone. If you use them in tandem together you have MORE counting stats. Two players are more than one. (checks match) Yeah 2 is more than 1 my three year old confirmed.
Will your daughter confirm the hypocrisy of your logic and math also please?
If you ONLY use the bench player you are loosing out. If you ONLY use the catcher and don't sub in bench players for off days you are loosing stats. It's a common strategy. Managers add and drop players all the time to fill in for guys who have no games or off days.
Dude without the catcher you have FOUR bench players subbing in for off days, not just three.

That is how you easily make up the AB's for the catcher with better numbers.

This continues to go way over your head apparently.

You are so ingrained that you think you are right no amount of logical reason is going to change your mind. I suggest you drop out of fantasy baseball and move on to knitting.
Another false statement from you.

You have yet to provide ANY logical reasoning.

Just hypocritical reasoning that bench stats don't count in my scenario but count in your scenario.

Maybe if you talked with only one face instead of two, you could provide a logical and consistent argument.

Not a hypocritical one that contradicts itself from paragraph to paragraph.

Maybe if you were able to do that you could move on from the fry station to maybe one day man the drive thru window.

cyler8
Posts: 123
Joined: Fri Feb 24, 2017 12:06 pm

Re: Fair or Not Fair Lineup manipulation.

Postby cyler8 » Wed May 24, 2017 11:28 am

The key word you keep saying is make up. You are correct you are making up for what you are loosing at catcher. Nothing more nothing less.

Is 25 greater than 15?

Try this out. Go to your league and get the total hitting stats this year for the team not using a catcher. Let me know what those are. Then tell me the top 5 available catchers in the league by current ranking as of today. Then give me a couple bench players this team is using.
10 team league (10 keepers each season)
6X6 Scoring
H, R, HR, RBI, SB, OPS
W, QS, SV+H, WHIP, K

C: Evan Gattis
1B: Rhys Hoskins
2B: Scott Kingery
3B: Alex Bregman
SS: Trea Turner
OF: AJ Pollock
OF: Tommy Pham
OF: Mitch Haniger
UT: George Springer
UT: Kyle Schwarber
BN: Jean Segura
BN: Adrian Beltre
BN: Lewis Brinson
BN: Franchy Cordero
BN: Anthony Rizzo

SP: Zack Godley
SP: Aaron Nola
SP: James Paxton
RP: Roberto Osuna
RP: Felipe Vazquez
RP: Raisel Iglesias
RP: Dellin Betances
BN: Masahiro Tanaka
BN: Charlie Morton

DontHaveToCheat
Posts: 44
Joined: Mon May 15, 2017 10:34 am

Re: Fair or Not Fair Lineup manipulation.

Postby DontHaveToCheat » Wed May 24, 2017 11:35 am

MAKE UP STARTS. NOT MAKE UP NUMBERS.

Starts that provide better numbers especially in BA and SB's

How can I dumb that down to you any further Tarzan?

Or do you not think that better numbers in at least two of five categories is a good thing?

DontHaveToCheat
Posts: 44
Joined: Mon May 15, 2017 10:34 am

Re: Fair or Not Fair Lineup manipulation.

Postby DontHaveToCheat » Wed May 24, 2017 11:36 am

MAKE UP STARTS WITH BETTER NUMBERS

MAKE UP STARTS WITH BETTER NUMBERS

MAKE UP STARTS WITH BETTER NUMBERS

MAKE UP STARTS WITH BETTER NUMBERS

MAKE UP STARTS WITH BETTER NUMBERS

MAKE UP STARTS WITH BETTER NUMBERS

MAKE UP STARTS WITH BETTER NUMBERS

MAKE UP STARTS WITH BETTER NUMBERS

MAKE UP STARTS WITH BETTER NUMBERS

MAKE UP STARTS WITH BETTER NUMBERS

understand the difference between STARTS and NUMBERS yet?

Can I talk to your two year old daughter? I think she would understand the difference between the two.

cyler8
Posts: 123
Joined: Fri Feb 24, 2017 12:06 pm

Re: Fair or Not Fair Lineup manipulation.

Postby cyler8 » Wed May 24, 2017 11:37 am

Take up knitting bro. Trying to help you understand this by using YOUR league as a real life example but you just go to being a bigot. Get over it and start a new league with the rules you want. Good luck getting anyone to join. Then again you could play it yourself. That way you are guaranteed to win.
10 team league (10 keepers each season)
6X6 Scoring
H, R, HR, RBI, SB, OPS
W, QS, SV+H, WHIP, K

C: Evan Gattis
1B: Rhys Hoskins
2B: Scott Kingery
3B: Alex Bregman
SS: Trea Turner
OF: AJ Pollock
OF: Tommy Pham
OF: Mitch Haniger
UT: George Springer
UT: Kyle Schwarber
BN: Jean Segura
BN: Adrian Beltre
BN: Lewis Brinson
BN: Franchy Cordero
BN: Anthony Rizzo

SP: Zack Godley
SP: Aaron Nola
SP: James Paxton
RP: Roberto Osuna
RP: Felipe Vazquez
RP: Raisel Iglesias
RP: Dellin Betances
BN: Masahiro Tanaka
BN: Charlie Morton

DontHaveToCheat
Posts: 44
Joined: Mon May 15, 2017 10:34 am

Re: Fair or Not Fair Lineup manipulation.

Postby DontHaveToCheat » Wed May 24, 2017 11:41 am

Let's see if I can dumb this down enough for even you to understand....

Which player would you rather have?

Player A with a .242BA 14 HR 50R 55RBI and 0SB

or

Player B with a .255BA 16HR 55R 58RBI and 5SB

I'll give you a hint....

Player A is a low level fantasy catcher. Player B is the numbers you can get streaming an extra player through the lineup with the extra bench spot you get.

Another hint, you can't add a bench player (which YOU said their stats don't count to Player A)

cyler8
Posts: 123
Joined: Fri Feb 24, 2017 12:06 pm

Re: Fair or Not Fair Lineup manipulation.

Postby cyler8 » Wed May 24, 2017 11:44 am

I want BOTH. What rule in your league says you cant stream a bench spot AND have a catcher?

Does this team have more total players than any other team in the league?
10 team league (10 keepers each season)
6X6 Scoring
H, R, HR, RBI, SB, OPS
W, QS, SV+H, WHIP, K

C: Evan Gattis
1B: Rhys Hoskins
2B: Scott Kingery
3B: Alex Bregman
SS: Trea Turner
OF: AJ Pollock
OF: Tommy Pham
OF: Mitch Haniger
UT: George Springer
UT: Kyle Schwarber
BN: Jean Segura
BN: Adrian Beltre
BN: Lewis Brinson
BN: Franchy Cordero
BN: Anthony Rizzo

SP: Zack Godley
SP: Aaron Nola
SP: James Paxton
RP: Roberto Osuna
RP: Felipe Vazquez
RP: Raisel Iglesias
RP: Dellin Betances
BN: Masahiro Tanaka
BN: Charlie Morton

DontHaveToCheat
Posts: 44
Joined: Mon May 15, 2017 10:34 am

Re: Fair or Not Fair Lineup manipulation.

Postby DontHaveToCheat » Wed May 24, 2017 12:09 pm

I want BOTH. What rule in your league says you cant stream a bench spot AND have a catcher?
You can't have both, that is what you are not understanding.

It is an EITHER/OR situation. Choose one.

It is the choice between the stats a catcher provides or the stats that a fourth bench spot supplies to the starting lineup. That is what you are not understanding.

cyler8
Posts: 123
Joined: Fri Feb 24, 2017 12:06 pm

Re: Fair or Not Fair Lineup manipulation.

Postby cyler8 » Wed May 24, 2017 12:28 pm

Why not?

Let me know if this scenario makes sense because this is what is happening to me.

Team A -
Lets say team A has no catcher.
They have Mike Trout and today is his teams off day.
But this manager has added Marwin Gonzalez as a bench bat to fill in for players with off days.

Marwin goes 1 for 4 with a HR.

So Team A has the following counting stats.
250 ave, 250 OBP, 1H, 1R, 1HR, 1RBI

Team B
Team B has a catcher. Alex Avila
Team B also has Bryce Harper and he is getting a day of rest
Team B has a streaming bench player they can put in for Bryce. Brandon Drury lets say.

Drury goes 1/4 with a homerun so at this point Team A and B have the same stats
BUT Alex Avila also goes 1/4 with a homerun.

So Team B now has a line that looks like this:
2/8 250 ave, 250BP, 2H, 2R, 2HR, 2RBI

Team B just got BOTH of those scenarios. They got the streaming bench players stats AND the catchers stats. So if the season ended after that game Team B wins because of the catcher. Team A is at a disadvantage for not having one.

Now of course it's possible for the catcher to go 0 for 4. But the bench player can also go 0 for 4. But in the long run, and if the manager is good at streaming with maybe a little luck mixed in, their team will have better numbers and have a better chance at winning with a catcher.
10 team league (10 keepers each season)
6X6 Scoring
H, R, HR, RBI, SB, OPS
W, QS, SV+H, WHIP, K

C: Evan Gattis
1B: Rhys Hoskins
2B: Scott Kingery
3B: Alex Bregman
SS: Trea Turner
OF: AJ Pollock
OF: Tommy Pham
OF: Mitch Haniger
UT: George Springer
UT: Kyle Schwarber
BN: Jean Segura
BN: Adrian Beltre
BN: Lewis Brinson
BN: Franchy Cordero
BN: Anthony Rizzo

SP: Zack Godley
SP: Aaron Nola
SP: James Paxton
RP: Roberto Osuna
RP: Felipe Vazquez
RP: Raisel Iglesias
RP: Dellin Betances
BN: Masahiro Tanaka
BN: Charlie Morton

DontHaveToCheat
Posts: 44
Joined: Mon May 15, 2017 10:34 am

Re: Fair or Not Fair Lineup manipulation.

Postby DontHaveToCheat » Wed May 24, 2017 1:09 pm

I think we are getting closer. Yes your scenario makes sense, but this is the scenario I am presenting.

Follow me here....

Team A has no catcher.

They have Mike Trout and Bryce Harper off (its an example lol)

They also have Paul Goldschmidt and Corey Seager off.

They have four bench spots to pick up Ian Happ, Brett Gardner, Justin Smoak and Zack Cozart to fill in the off days.

Those four players combine to go 4-16 with 4 HR's, 4 Runs, 4 RBI's and 4 SB's (again, example lol)

Team B has Alex Avila who is off that day. Either team day off or scheduled day of rest, which often times is not really announced for catchers unless you have the resources to check the starting lineups every day and make roster changes for the catcher position every single day.

They also have Charlie Blackmon and Michael Conforto off.

They also have Joey Votto and Franciso Lindor off.

Since they have a catcher on the roster that must be kept in the lineup, they only have three bench positions to fill in for FIVE days off.

So they stream in Javier Baez, Aaron Hicks and Jose Peraza because they didn't want to lose Avila to waivers as he is currently rated the #5 catcher by ESPN and might not get him back and then be stuck with a lesser catcher off the waiver wire.

Those three players combine to go 3-12 with 3 HR's 3 Runs, 3 RBI's and 3 SB's.

Which would you rather have?

Each streaming player performed identical.

My point is, that in the long run a good manager can use the extra bench spot to provide better numbers with the four bench spots than 3 bench spots and a catcher because the fourth bench spot can used to pull players from stronger offensive positions like OF and CI and even DH.

And that baseball should always have a catcher position filled, regardless if that player is playing that day or not in real life.


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