Fair or Not Fair Lineup manipulation.

Who to start, who to bench. Grab that WW guy? Low priced rookie or high priced stud?
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MattTruss223
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Re: Fair or Not Fair Lineup manipulation.

Postby MattTruss223 » Tue May 23, 2017 12:05 pm

The game is to accumulate the best/most roto stats for your team.
While fielding a team that resembles a real baseball team including all positions.
...I don't see that verbiage in the ESPN/Yahoo/FanTrax league settings anywhere...

And these "lost numbers" you speak of...you can't make up these numbers with a guy sitting on the bench. That means you can only make up these numbers on short schedule days, basically on Mondays and Thursdays when your regulars might have a day off. A guy sitting on your bench is not contributing any stats....I don't understand how you're not seeing this.
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cyler8
Posts: 123
Joined: Fri Feb 24, 2017 12:06 pm

Re: Fair or Not Fair Lineup manipulation.

Postby cyler8 » Tue May 23, 2017 1:20 pm

Yep this is not a generic fantasy baseball question, it's a league specific one. I would venture to guess that 99% of leagues do NOT force managers to have EVERY position filled. I know all my leagues don't. I can not have a catcher, or not have a 1B. Leagues generally state MAXIMUMS not MINIMUMS. Thus if your league says 1C, 1 1B, 1 2B, 4 OF ect it is stating you cannot have MORE than those for each position. Nothing in the leagues, that I know about, force a manager to have a MINIMUM slotted at each position on the roster.

If you think that each position on a roster MUST be occupied at all times then that is something you need to take up with the league and the league commish because in even the most competitive fantasy leagues you can have a number of empty spots on a roster if you so choose.

My personal opinion is to try and always put a bat in the lineup no matter what. If I know my catcher is going to get an off day tomorrow because he just caught 12 innings of a night game and there is a day game tomorrow I will pull just about anyone off the wire to give me ABs for those counting stats. I'd rather have the chance of Derek Norris off the bench go 1 for 4 with a double and a run scored than have nothing.
10 team league (10 keepers each season)
6X6 Scoring
H, R, HR, RBI, SB, OPS
W, QS, SV+H, WHIP, K

C: Evan Gattis
1B: Rhys Hoskins
2B: Scott Kingery
3B: Alex Bregman
SS: Trea Turner
OF: AJ Pollock
OF: Tommy Pham
OF: Mitch Haniger
UT: George Springer
UT: Kyle Schwarber
BN: Jean Segura
BN: Adrian Beltre
BN: Lewis Brinson
BN: Franchy Cordero
BN: Anthony Rizzo

SP: Zack Godley
SP: Aaron Nola
SP: James Paxton
RP: Roberto Osuna
RP: Felipe Vazquez
RP: Raisel Iglesias
RP: Dellin Betances
BN: Masahiro Tanaka
BN: Charlie Morton

DontHaveToCheat
Posts: 44
Joined: Mon May 15, 2017 10:34 am

Re: Fair or Not Fair Lineup manipulation.

Postby DontHaveToCheat » Tue May 23, 2017 2:11 pm

And these "lost numbers" you speak of...you can't make up these numbers with a guy sitting on the bench. That means you can only make up these numbers on short schedule days, basically on Mondays and Thursdays when your regulars might have a day off. A guy sitting on your bench is not contributing any stats....I don't understand how you're not seeing this.
Which part of having the extra bench spot to fill in on short schedule days, basically days other than Friday, Saturday, Sunday that are the only days all 32 teams are scheduled, plus Sundays when a lot of guys get days off plus other days off during they week can easily make up the meager numbers provided by a low end catcher with far better BA and SB numbers.

I don't understand how you're not seeing this.

DontHaveToCheat
Posts: 44
Joined: Mon May 15, 2017 10:34 am

Re: Fair or Not Fair Lineup manipulation.

Postby DontHaveToCheat » Tue May 23, 2017 2:13 pm

Yep this is not a generic fantasy baseball question, it's a league specific one. I would venture to guess that 99% of leagues do NOT force managers to have EVERY position filled.
I've played fantasy baseball for 30 years and never heard a league that didn't require all positions filled and certainly wouldn't award an extra bench spot if you didn't.

cyler8
Posts: 123
Joined: Fri Feb 24, 2017 12:06 pm

Re: Fair or Not Fair Lineup manipulation.

Postby cyler8 » Tue May 23, 2017 2:30 pm

Funny because every person here is saying the opposite. Not sure what fantasy leagues you have been playing in but I have never been a part of one that requires all spots to be filled and I have been playing for 10 years.

Again this is a problem with your league. The industry standard, today, is that you don't have to start every position every day. And quite frankly it's a disadvantage to not start a catcher.
10 team league (10 keepers each season)
6X6 Scoring
H, R, HR, RBI, SB, OPS
W, QS, SV+H, WHIP, K

C: Evan Gattis
1B: Rhys Hoskins
2B: Scott Kingery
3B: Alex Bregman
SS: Trea Turner
OF: AJ Pollock
OF: Tommy Pham
OF: Mitch Haniger
UT: George Springer
UT: Kyle Schwarber
BN: Jean Segura
BN: Adrian Beltre
BN: Lewis Brinson
BN: Franchy Cordero
BN: Anthony Rizzo

SP: Zack Godley
SP: Aaron Nola
SP: James Paxton
RP: Roberto Osuna
RP: Felipe Vazquez
RP: Raisel Iglesias
RP: Dellin Betances
BN: Masahiro Tanaka
BN: Charlie Morton

DontHaveToCheat
Posts: 44
Joined: Mon May 15, 2017 10:34 am

Re: Fair or Not Fair Lineup manipulation.

Postby DontHaveToCheat » Wed May 24, 2017 6:20 am

And quite frankly it's a disadvantage to not start a catcher.
Wrong.

Not when you gain an extra bench spot that can be used to fill in the short schedule days and provide you overall better numbers.

I have provided the math and it is undeniable.

Now if you didn't start a catcher and were left with the three bench spots, I would agree with that comment.

I am quite sure your "industry standard" doesn't award an extra bench spot.

Also your "everyone" is what, all of three people?

If you say it is a problem with the league I am in, then you agree that it is a problem.

cyler8
Posts: 123
Joined: Fri Feb 24, 2017 12:06 pm

Re: Fair or Not Fair Lineup manipulation.

Postby cyler8 » Wed May 24, 2017 8:50 am

Dude get over yourself. YOU are dead wrong. Even if your bench player gave you the same number as a catcher over the course of the year for filling in on off days for other players. YOU ARE STILL LOOSING ALL COUNTING STATS FOR THE CATCHER SPOT.

That is a lot. Here look at these three catchers last year that you could have put into a lineup and ADDED all of these stats on top of that "extra bench" player: (NONE of these catchers were hot commodities until well into the season. So they were all mostly available to add via the wire and I am pretty sure no one has ever owned Tyler Flowers in a league because...well he's Tyler Flowers.)

Sandy Leon
310/369/7/35

Tyler Flowers
270/357/8/41

Willson Contreras
282/357/12/35 and 2 steals

Further more look at some catchers THIS year that are widely available (owned in less than 50% of leagues) that are crushing the ball:

Alex Avila
360/473/5/18

Martin Maldonado
270/336/2/10

Robinson Chirinos
265/379/5/14

If this person had ANY of these catchers on their roster they would have gained ALL of these counting stats without loosing anything. So this is a complete 100% loss of all those stats for that team that they CANNOT make up because they DO NOT HAVE A CATCHER.

All of those catchers had similar if not better stats than the bench player you are upset about. So this person could have all those bench numbers PLUS these types of numbers for plugging a catcher in. So you are wrong. The FACT is that playing a catcher will give your team MORE stats than not playing one. Even is said catcher only garners 200 ABs in a season.

Also if you think not having a catcher is unfair then you must think it is SUPER unfair to have someone slot into a catcher position that ISN"T a catcher. A la Kyle Schwarber. Dude qualifies at catcher but has played...(checks) 2 INNINGS of catcher this year. That, personally, is more unfair than not starting a catcher.
If you say it is a problem with the league I am in, then you agree that it is a problem.
No no. I agree it is your problem. Yours and yours alone.
10 team league (10 keepers each season)
6X6 Scoring
H, R, HR, RBI, SB, OPS
W, QS, SV+H, WHIP, K

C: Evan Gattis
1B: Rhys Hoskins
2B: Scott Kingery
3B: Alex Bregman
SS: Trea Turner
OF: AJ Pollock
OF: Tommy Pham
OF: Mitch Haniger
UT: George Springer
UT: Kyle Schwarber
BN: Jean Segura
BN: Adrian Beltre
BN: Lewis Brinson
BN: Franchy Cordero
BN: Anthony Rizzo

SP: Zack Godley
SP: Aaron Nola
SP: James Paxton
RP: Roberto Osuna
RP: Felipe Vazquez
RP: Raisel Iglesias
RP: Dellin Betances
BN: Masahiro Tanaka
BN: Charlie Morton

DontHaveToCheat
Posts: 44
Joined: Mon May 15, 2017 10:34 am

Re: Fair or Not Fair Lineup manipulation.

Postby DontHaveToCheat » Wed May 24, 2017 9:03 am

Even if your bench player gave you the same number as a catcher over the course of the year for filling in on off days for other players. YOU ARE STILL LOOSING ALL COUNTING STATS FOR THE CATCHER SPOT.
Complete logic fail in that comment.

The extra bench player ADDS numbers filling in on off days for other players.

Numbers that REPLACE and IMPROVE the "missing counting stats for the catcher spot.

So you are not "loosing all the counting stats for the catcher spot", because they are being replaced AND improving the numbers at other positions that would not have been gained without the extra bench spot.

How can you not see this?

If you are missing 4 catcher starts a week but gain 5 extra starts in OF and 1B/3B/CI how are you really losing anything?

Last time I checked, 5 starts is better than 4 starts and easily likely to add more counting stats than just the catcher alone.

In a 10 team league, there is enough depth in the OF and other position players to make up 4-5 starts a week a catcher might get with streaming players. Players still able to put up superior numbers to low level catchers.

DontHaveToCheat
Posts: 44
Joined: Mon May 15, 2017 10:34 am

Re: Fair or Not Fair Lineup manipulation.

Postby DontHaveToCheat » Wed May 24, 2017 9:05 am

All of those catchers had similar if not better stats than the bench player you are upset about.
They do?

How do you know?

Do you know the available bench players in the league?

If not, you are just making wild assumptions to fit your bias.

cyler8
Posts: 123
Joined: Fri Feb 24, 2017 12:06 pm

Re: Fair or Not Fair Lineup manipulation.

Postby cyler8 » Wed May 24, 2017 10:37 am

They do?

How do you know?

Do you know the available bench players in the league?

If not, you are just making wild assumptions to fit your bias.
Going off of your math pal. So maybe you should check it lol.

And yes if you have 0 hits, 0 hr, 0 average for your catcher position you get...wait for it. Nothing. The bench player HAS to be in the lineup for their stats to count. So if this extra bench player hits 4 HRs on the bench THEY DONT COUNT. But ALL of the catchers stats will count because he is in the lineup every day.

If you don't have a catcher you can't get stats from the catcher. The extra bench player can't play every day. So you would be loosing all the stats that a catcher would provide if he was in the lineup. It's really simple man.
In a 10 team league, there is enough depth in the OF and other position players to make up 4-5 starts a week a catcher might get with streaming players. Players still able to put up superior numbers to low level catchers.
This quote is perfect. You specifically state "make up." That is it. All this will do is make up for what they are loosing at catcher. But if the still had a catcher they would have the catchers stats IN ADDITION to this bench player. Not INSTEAD OF. It's simple math. If you got 250/15/50/5 from a roaming bench spot over a season only you would have that stat line. But if you ADDED a catcher to it who had a line of 240/10/35/1 you ADD those two together. You would have a combined stat line of 245/25/85/6. That stat line is better than what only the bench player can provide.
Last time I checked, 5 starts is better than 4 starts and easily likely to add more counting stats than just the catcher alone.
The idea here is that you don't use the catcher OR the bench player alone. If you use them in tandem together you have MORE counting stats. Two players are more than one. (checks match) Yeah 2 is more than 1 my three year old confirmed.

If you ONLY use the bench player you are loosing out. If you ONLY use the catcher and don't sub in bench players for off days you are loosing stats. It's a common strategy. Managers add and drop players all the time to fill in for guys who have no games or off days.

Also something I think you are missing is that, in Yahoo at least, there are unlimited bench spots. (at least in the leagues I play in.) You could literally take your entire lineup and move them to the bench and have no active players playing in any spot. I just did this to confirm. But there is a max roster size. So I moved all 25 of my players to a bench spot.

Now answer this. Which is more. 15 home runs or 25? If you said 25 then you agree that having a catcher AND a roaming bench player in the end is better for the team.

You are so ingrained that you think you are right no amount of logical reason is going to change your mind. I suggest you drop out of fantasy baseball and move on to knitting.
10 team league (10 keepers each season)
6X6 Scoring
H, R, HR, RBI, SB, OPS
W, QS, SV+H, WHIP, K

C: Evan Gattis
1B: Rhys Hoskins
2B: Scott Kingery
3B: Alex Bregman
SS: Trea Turner
OF: AJ Pollock
OF: Tommy Pham
OF: Mitch Haniger
UT: George Springer
UT: Kyle Schwarber
BN: Jean Segura
BN: Adrian Beltre
BN: Lewis Brinson
BN: Franchy Cordero
BN: Anthony Rizzo

SP: Zack Godley
SP: Aaron Nola
SP: James Paxton
RP: Roberto Osuna
RP: Felipe Vazquez
RP: Raisel Iglesias
RP: Dellin Betances
BN: Masahiro Tanaka
BN: Charlie Morton


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